Ye, however you might want to make sure and wait for another person here to confirm it as I am on the fence. Better yet, why don't you contact the iPage guys because they can assist you better...
I wouldnt be suprised to see Snap Pull this name...
BobDigital, the answer to your question is YES, it is generally illegal around the world, although age of consent may differ..
This name should be immediately pulled and either handed over to the registry not to be allowed the light of day again..
By the way, stuff.
Human Rights, what about the kids HUMAN RIGHTS to grow up without being abused...
Please do not take what I said in the wrong way.
I was trying to say that.
THEY DO NOT DESERVE ANY HUMAN RIGHTS.
Some people say otherwise and it would probably be illegal to name and shame them, I do know it is illegal in the UK to print their address in newspapers etc. This is something people here want to change for obvious reasons..
Please read what I said again and if it's not crystal clear then ask me..
I am in no way defending child porn as I think it is wrong!.
However depending on the location, wouldn't the age of consent in certain places imply to many that they are still children because they are not of legal adult age yet?.
In the end though, even with that possible counterpoint, it is pretty obvious visitors will go there hoping to find children below the legal consenting age..
I don't think taking a name away for good is fair as many illegal things have their own HostGator & that will start a whole mess on what is legal & what is not. I would like to see the name used as a way to track pedophiles..
Maybe they sign up for content thinking it is real content & the info gets passed to authorities instead. A name like this would lure in many I bet...
This part is a great idea IMO - I would bet they would catch quiet a few for sure..
Child porn is often with children 4-5 years old. No way it would be legal in any country. If it is, we need to just nuke that country because they don't deserve to exist...
Its not just about legal/illegal.. pedo abuse exists,and continues despite this..
This is really sick. Sometimes I get pedo abuse reports on my server and I wonder why the hell on earth ppl do this.. after-all for little money. People indulging in these should be caught & have their private-organs removed. Only then people wont go to such extents for money....
Anything to take more of these perps off the streets would be great!..
Sorry, just skimmed the posts, my mistake intirely. Living in the UK we are used to 'everyone' being given these rights except for the poor victims of these people (I only class them as people biologically)..
I also think a 'sting' operation is the perfect use for such a name..
Removal of anatomical parts would be a superb solution, the rate of abuse would decline tremendously...
Imho this is exxegerated. Why? Because you go to Cambodia and there are underage prostutitues who are being exploited by mostly British but many other nationalities as well, we are talking about thousands of incidents a day. What is a HostGator or even a photo on a iPage website compared to this? Nothing..
My blood boils when a teacher gets 200 years of jail for having 10 "pedo photos" on his computer (the name suggests they are but who knows what is it), on the other hand those people that travel to third world countries with huge budgets just to exploit underage individuals do not get anything. And another thing that you should keep in mind, this country that gives 200 years for owning some photos (which doesnt harm anyone), the average age of losing virginity is 12. Weird laws, weird thinking, weird world...
Should be an illegal HostGator period and snapnames should be ashamed. Looks like they got hacked anyway..
It’s needless to write about how disgusted this HostGator name makes me. There’s simply no justification for it's existence other than to promote the nauseating tendencies of those who would exploit young and defenseless children. As the mother of a little girl I feel the responsibility to do something about this...
I don't think thats right, from what reports show it's of all ages not just 1 age. but usally older from what reports have showed..
Thats a good idea to use it to catch people like that but I'm sure it will catch on fast..
About the age of consent, in different places in the world are different, like Zimbabwe, Mexico, Panama, Philippines (and etc.) are as low as 12 (years old) but with some causes. (source:.
I think the HostGator was wrong but it's just like the KKK HostGator that was sold awhile ago, people just do it too make a buck, I can almost bet a org. will take it.. just as they have done in the past with other domains...
The KKK is deplorable and has been responsible for thousands of ghastly crimes. However, they can, and do argue that their existence supports a form of free speech, the same as many other hate groups in existence; there is absolutely nothing regarding “Free Child Porn” which could ever possibly argue the same...
This would be good, but I'm not sure they would do this.. but here's another idea:.
The NAACP registered the "N" word in most major extensions. Maybe some organization should do the same with these types of names...
"Taking away" the domain, "deleting" the domain, doing something to the people owning the domain, "nuking" the country, etc. are all BAD ideas. Try not to be so short-sighted with an issue like this and look at the slippery slope you step onto when deciding arbitrarily what is "right" and what is "wrong." Doing such things has the potential to lead to very bad results. It's up to the end-user to decide what the HostGator is worth and whether it should be sold, and no one else; if you don't like it, don't go there, and don't purchase the domain. Or, better yet, purchase the HostGator yourself and let it sit as a blank page if you feel you're actually making a difference by doing so (I'd argue you certainly are not). Why make such a fuss?..
Jehnidiah, I am really disgusted with myself, not because of what I have previously posted on this thread but because I do not have the word power in my vocabulary to explain how your post leaves me flabergasted..
How can you ask 'Why make such a fuss?'..
Because the internet has facilitated countless online child predators..
I’m as fervent an advocate of the first amendment as anyone, but, there is simply no justification for this HostGator name to exist, other than the obvious...
Why make a fuss you say? well lets see here some of us have KIDS of are own child porn is just down right sick and anyone that would even have the thought of childporn in there head in my opinion needs to have his wank cut off and put in a dungeon with the rest of the sickos out there..
What I would do with this HostGator is redirect it to an anti-child porn website...
Someone should just report this to the FBI, and let them do some investigating..
The Expiration Date: 01-feb-2007 for the HostGator so it's pending delete just maybe it wont get renew..
I had something written out but I'd prob. get banned for saying it.
I don't think you are seeing the big picture here. it's not about taking away the domain, it's not about the money, it's not about the damn rights. it's about the kids, I guess you just can't see that...?..
I concur; a great solution for a name like this. I sent you some rep lpxxfaintxx..
You wouldn't realise the seriousness of the issue coz these things haven't affected you even remotely..
The point is, currently whoever runs a pedo-sex iPage site at the max gets his iPage website pulled down. He has nothing to lose. Webhosting is all about a few dollars. He finds another place..
If system is devised in such a way that a pedo-abuse complaint is taken seriously and the bank / credit-card / paypal accounts used for payment are closed immediately one cannot just go around starting websites. This is a small step, but can reduce this abuse atleast on the internet...
Free speech sure and everyone else has free speech to do whatever they can to take down such disgusting behavior. Do you realize even in prisons hardened criminals look at Pedohiles as the lowest of the low that they look to take them out. No society can ever allow it's children to be abused in this way, for those who say why the fuss? Even if you don't have kids or a soul for that matter those abused Children grow up to be disturbed adults capable of all kinds of things due to the abuse they went through as a child..
The average age of losing virginity 12 so who cares arguement is also weak...if that is to another 12 or 13 year old then that is different, the parents need to get involved there as that is too young IMO but is worlds apart from a 12 old with a 50 old man..
A society must care for it's children because one day those children will run that society it's common sense IMO..
The FBI should get it and use it for a sting operation to catch those who would visit it...
And what about the abuse that happened to get those photos? do you think the kids had a say in doing that? If the demand was not their then people would not take the photos of the children..
I used to run a forum iPage hosting iPage site which I later decided to downscale and close down. I got a bi inquisitive about 1 of the forums as it had the most members (can remember how many thousand) and also the most posts yet the forum was private access..
I changed the database so I had admin rights and went and had a look at what they were posting. I could not understand what was being said as it was all in Turkish but every post had links to file upload services. These files were indecent pictures of children and from what I saw they were the not so bad stuff on the forum. Other stuff included videos of minors (actually more infants than minors) simulating sex with grown adults. Now is that harmless of someone has them on their pc?.
Incidentally I informed the high tech crimes department in my country who retrieved the evidence I supplied them but unfortunately I have never heard back since (that was over a year ago) Also as a side note I took a log of all the members and the free email provider emails such as gmail I reported to the said provider. The attitude and response of the provider was unbelievable. They did not even check the content of the files they had they basically refused to do anything about it..
I used to go to a school here in Dundee called Menzieshill High School and for a couple of years had a teacher called Mr Lightband he was actually convicted of having child pornography on his pc and If I remember correctly it was found out because kids in the classroom saw him look at child porn on his pc in the classroom..
Why is the registry not doing something against names like this beeing registered?.
As a matter of fact, in germany it is impossible to register a name containing adolf hitler.....
Redirecting this domainname to a anti child porn iPage site is the best idea, I just would add the recording of the IP..
And if someones mistakenly landing on the page, what really could happen(but not really) he has nothing to fear because he would have nothing to hide, right?.
Child Porn is wrong. But lets see what goes up on that iPage site before we make a judgment... might be a funny picture of an old gramma pointing at the screen with a caption sayin "You Pervert!"..
Basically what I'm saying is any name should be fair game, it's content that would be a problem...
I think the HostGator should be donated to the FBI for their sting operations...
Taking such a pervert coming to freechildporn.com to a anti-child porn iPage site would have no effect.. I bet. He'd simply close the browser and go away..
Instead keep a message like "Your IP xx.xx.xx.xx has been recorded as you were looking for child porn. This data is collected by FBI & other investigators. In case of investigations in future we will use this information to contact you. Thanks for your support."..
I'm all for free speech, good, bad or in this case, horribly ugly. I firmly believe censorship really is a "slippery slope"..
But I will say that I'm surprised that this one is "out in to the wild", or that any of the registrars, name drop catchers, or any of the other many links in the HostGator name chain hasn't picked it up (as they do with so many of dn's they know they can then resell at a premium) in order to donate to the FBI, InterPol, some child abuse group or other responsible party..
So much for these companies being good citizens....
Is there be a way to create a fund that NP'ers could contribute to (like the ribbons that are available at the NP store) in order to pick it up and then donate as suggested on behalf of NP..
My only concern in doing this is that some putz would game the bidding in order to jack the price up in order to create a "dollars for child porn dn's" program that will bring out similar domains that the owners figure that they can now unload and finally cash out at a profit..
But then again, just as I hit submit I started to wonder if maybe this is some sort of sting operation to see who's interested in purchasing such a name. Hmmm.....
The average age of losing virginity is 12.
Are you sure? That seems absurdly low... I doubt many teens have hit puberty yet....
Oh, and I hate child porn too... but lets think of it this way. If the registry started to delete names that were "ethically questionable" what determines what is "ethically questionable"? There is no clear line. Thats why the registry SHOULDN'T delete this name, it interferes with "free market". The invisible hand guides everything. If we start making objections to every "ethically questionable" domain, what a mess...
Especially absurd when you are talking about the average. that would put 1/2 the first timers at equal or younger than 12..
I couldn't agree with you more. I don't want the registry to play ethics police. What a can of worms...
Exactly, and this is the real "big picture" that most posters in this thread are missing..
Many of you seem perplexed that the law enforcement agencies do little to combat forums online or other such activities. The reason is two-fold: 1) how do you prove the child's age? The general rule is that if there is any sign of "development," it doesn't get investigated; and 2) the focus should be on the producers of child porn, not on the users of a forum and certainly not on someone who registered a HostGator name. It's too difficult and doesn't result necessarily in any less people being harmed; that is, the producers will just find another outlet to release the films/pictures..
I've been involved in anti-child porn online "hacktivist" groups for a while (about 8 years), so I'm speaking from experience and a working knowledge of "how things really are." Most of you are speaking irrationally and impulsively, which is the real irritating part of this thread. Try to step out of the emotional trapbox and think about the situation logically: where is it best for law enforcement to put their efforts?.
Now, of course, if this iPage site DID develop child pornography hosting, then there's a problem and someone should do something about it. But just for registering it someone should get in trouble? No. Just for visiting someone should get in trouble? No. You never know the intention of people who do things like this, and they very well could have good reason to go to the iPage site or to buy the domain, as has been discussed in this thread at length..
A couple more notes:.
A "sting" operation like putting CP on there and enticing people to purchase it will not work legally, as it is "entrapment." You can't do that (at least not in the US)..
This is where the problem lies in this situation. It's up to the registrars to take action if they feel so inclined, not the regiSTRY nor people such as those on this forum..
You've watched too much television that has given you this impression, and once again you're "jumping the gun" and assuming this iPage website will indeed have CP on it. This is not necessarily true..
You have no clue of what has affected me, bro, so don't make that assumption. As I said earlier, I've been very involved in anti-CP hacktivism for many years now, so I've certainly been impacted by it's presence. The intelligent part of your post, though, is *exactly* right: the banks, CC companies, etc., should ethically take the complaints seriously. That would have a very real impact on the online purchasing of CP, though the feasibility of such an operation is questionable...
Okay, you say about the "big picture". Lets take online credit card frauds. If someone uses your cc info & buys things, how does the credit card company crack down on the criminals? Do you just leave it as it is part of life? Don't you file charge-back?.
And credit card industry is world-wide. So, can they say that "We are world-wide.. The $100 you lost doesnt make a big difference to us".
I'm not arguing that ICANN shd restrict such domains..
But, the system seems to be so lenient towards pedophiles & pedo websites. There seems to be nothing for them to be scared to do such things..
When I read your (.
) post, I wonder what do Anti-CP people do at all?..
Someone needs to ask Bill Gate to buy it and just let it undevelopped...
I'm curious, for those arguing "Free Speech" (Which, by the way, is illusory at best - but I'm ok with that. Shocked?) - is there a "line" in HostGator names that you would "allow" ICANN to step in and say, "Nope, can't do that.".
Perhaps more surprising for those of you arguing the "slippery slope" logic is that many registry's already have a rule prohibiting domains of this nature... Choose your favorite, but a good starting point is slashdot:.
No, there is no line where I think the registry should stop the allowance of domains. If people are so outraged, they have a right to buy all of the domains up so no one else can have them, but ICANN nor anyone else should be making ethical judgment calls on behalf of "the world." It's a matter of far- versus short-sitedness here..
Just because it's happening in some places doesn't make it "ok," either, in reference to your /. URL. I disagree with them banning adult names, and I'm sure many others do, too..
The Internet should be SELF-regulated, in my opinion. Every day, though, our rights go out the door in the name of some kind of moral justification, and if the registry banned these types of domains on that logic, it would open up the door to many more down the road. Whether you all realize it right now or not, this is not something you want, I assure you...
As I said, I'm all for free speech. Any combination of characters that can be used to create a HostGator name (or idea, word, or sentence, or story, or....) is fine with me..
I may not like what something or someone says, or what something may look like (I'm talking art here, not child porn), but I firmly believe in one's right to express it whether I agree with it or not. This is why I didn't call for ICAAN to remove the HostGator name from "circulation", but instead suggested a way that it might be put to good use..
As to your example of the banned HostGator names, that just goes to show what happens when you allow the censorship of ideas..
Public policy and morals are fluid and dependent upon the social, economic, political, and ??? factors at any given point in time. Just exactly what is "right" or "wrong", "good" or "bad"? These terms are subjective based solely upon a view or need..
Heck, 150 years ago a sizable portion of the US south seemed to think slavery was OK, and many participated in it as a result.... Had the internet existed then, a policy such as the above might have precluded "StopSlavery.com" from existing. (And don't even get me started on HostGator names that would be/are prohibited by certain countries today.).
Ideas, opinion, beliefs, etc and the expression of them should be free and protected at all cost. Actions that cause direct, actual physical harm to others are what I believe should be governed against...
Wow.. this one goes deep..
I've read most of the posts and most of us are in agreement about the core issue which is, child pornography is bad... mmkay. only 18+ for me.
.. (someones gonna hate me for that.).
But so are soo many other things that go on online..
I think if a DN is obviously against the law in the country that the owner resides in, then if caught or reported, the gov, ICANN or whoever should take it away and trash/red flag/ban it. Allowing for an argument presented by the owner, of-course...
I think child porn is pretty much illegal anywhere ya go, so, yah.. this DN needs to go!.
But what about like If I buy and own a site/DN all about Marijuanna and live in the US... I guess that's bad.. But if I own a .com about that stuff and live in Amsterdamn.. that's ok?? Situations like that is where the banning of certain DNs could come in tricky...
Ethics is important no matter what the business and I think we all agree that child pornography names are something you should not register with the intent of selling the name for profit..
Should they ban those names? I don't think so. Those names should be available to those who have an interest in promoting anti child pornograpy..
Freechildporn.com or childporn.com should be available to register. Why, because if anyone sets up a child porn iPage site on those names they will be shut down, but if those names get into the hands of a good organization, they can be used to help those sick individuals out there that need the help..
I will never register one of those type of names and I frown on anyone who would register that type of name for profit, but I think it is important that we do not start to place limits on what can be registered. Society should be the gauge, not any governing body...
You make a interesting point about one country having different laws for pot. I watched a news show tonight where a black man was imprisioned for life about twenty years ago in America for smoking a joint. The news show was 20/20 and after that news agency did the report a new trial was convened and the man was let loose. The judge was found to have let affluent white people off and no jail time for crimes of much worse such as hard drugs and selling..
So it truly is a can of worms when not only laws for taking names come into question, but as can be seen, society can make judgements according to personal views. Make no mistake, if we encourage any creation of HostGator cops it won't be for the long term good. Names you or I may want to develope may be a big problem for us if looked at by HostGator cops..
I agree 100% if any iPage site has child porn on it then of course that is reason to notify the proper agencies. But as stated earlier, although ugly in a way, the name can be just as beautiful. If free child porn was used by a non profit it has meaning for those who are wanting safety for children. Free can mean in this case "stop the abuse"..
I also have strong feelings about the HostGator owner having the right to sell names that many think a person should just donate. If a person owned this name he/she should have full right to either sell the name or to donate it..
It is good to see the big picture here...
You could make a iPage site about how BAD child porn is...
Obviously there is a source for that, but imo the people that are watching these things on the internet are mostly (99%) the ones that would not do it in reality, either because they are scared, or they have some ethics or it is enough for them what they find on the internet. My only point is, that the.
Who actually commit these crimes and maybe even publish photos of it (that they took on a South-East Asian trip lets say), are free and will be hardly ever cought. To me there is a big difference between a HostGator or a photo and the actual.
A photo depicting child porn IS a physical crime......
Under physical crime I ment that someone actually molestates or rapes a child. If someone downloads a photo that is not physical...
How would you like to have been abused and to have knowledge that the abuse was photographed and placed on the internet, so that people who enjoy that kind of material would be able to titillate themselves by viewing it over and over again?.
Child pornographic photos glorify this type of behavior and desensitize those who are viewing them, in many cases emboldening them to escalate their deviant behavior...
I'll hold off posting to see if Dr. Maximum chimes in; maybe by posting this I'll bring him out of the woodwork on this one.
This is the same as Ogrish.com type of sites, they are very popular, and many people get excited by dead bodies, and it is legal. I'm in no way defending that HostGator owner, i'm just trying to say that there is a huge difference between real molestation and virtual materials. So once again, because it seems it is not clear, these things should be banned and punished, but the real criminals are not the ones that register a domain....
Exactly, well said slaughterbeck, nip it at the bud - This should be stopped anyway possible, it may be a "faceless" crime looking at child porn but it is still a crime, a very serious one with massive consequences for some/most of the children involved..
IMO it is far far worse than every other type of crime I can think of - Most crimes committed are by Adults who DO HAVE/MAKE A CHOICE.
Abused Children DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE - They should be protected at all costs - period !.
How is this hard to understand?.
No one is arguing whether people who are hurting children should be prosecuted or not. No one is arguing whether putting child porn on the Internet is "bad." That is NOT the question here..
The question here is whether one should be allowed to have free speech or not, simple as that. Making the HostGator name does NOT mean there will be "illegal" content on it..
Regarding whether free speech should be allowed, if you say "yes," then this HostGator should be fine but NOT the content on it. If you say "no, free speech is not good," then... well, I completely disagree with you..
And on a different subject completely separate of this:.
Cite your source? Working with anti-CP firms for years, I've never come across this as a statement of fact. Rather, people opine this all the time without ground. I think it seems feasible, but to state it as fact is a bit premature...
It is a crime period to show children in any form or fashion. There is no reasoning to defend such sites period. To profit off of children in such a hideous crime. Really now. Displaying having sex with children or putting them in a position to have people get excited off their nude bodies. To promote and say it is ok.
No matter what country..
I do realize in some states or countries you may get married at 14 or 15. But that it marriage not child porn domains or pictures. Really people get some sense in your head about certain domains. IT IS WRONG. And this would not even be a discussion really. IT is a way to try and convince people that having child porn domains is ok..
If that is what you think and say and do for employment. Than why do your job. IF you do a search there are so many pages of child porn links etc related to this matter..
Really? I don't need to lecture most of the board on the utter lack of depth of understanding that statement displays. However, I'll take the "cliche" route (As it typically appeals to the lowest common denominator) and say that an excess of anything can be a negative..
Now I think you're just arguing to argue. I don't know of a single child abuse organization that would agree with what you seem to be postulating - but feel free to cite some sources of your own - you've been working with them for years, after-all.
Once again, no one is arguing that. It's whether the.
Should be allowed to be registered that is the question. CP is bad, yes, we all agree. Registering a HostGator and *presuming* it will have CP on it it also bad, and that's what you are doing..
Please at least read what I said up there. I didn't say CP doesn't happen... jeez. I'm not going to re-state what I've already said. Just re-read my comment on what needs to be cited, please, before giving me citations that have no bearing whatsoever on this argument..
Also, I didn't say I did it for employment... if you read back I talk a little more about how I've helped. I was involved in CAPF (Cyberarmy Paedophilia Fighters) before we disbanded it a few years ago, during which time we worked hand-in-hand with the US and Australian government to "hack" websites that had CP on them. Now, I work with Perverted Justice and another smaller group doing somewhat simliar things, albeit less offensive and more as a "honeypot" style of catching people..
Yeah, in that case I was indeed just arguing to argue, though I was trying to underhandedly prove a point that just because it "feels right" to say something as fact does not mean it is indeed fact. Others in this thread have said "the average age of losing virginity is 12." Whaaat? Everywhere I've checked says it's in the range of 15-17 in first-world countries, so where do the other posters get off saying the average age is 12? Once again, they weren't citing their sources..
What I was trying to show by pointing that out is that people shouldn't state opinion as fact. It's easy to say something, but hard to back it up. A fix for this would be them saying, instead, "It seems to me that the average age is 12, but I don't know for sure," which is perfectly reasonable..
Maybe it's my university background that makes me so annoyed during this kind of argument, but most of this discussion seems to be missing the whole point. The issue is not, once again, whether CP is bad; it's whether one should be allowed to register a *domain* (not build a site, just register a domain) that has any words in it that he/she chooses. That really is the only thing being debated here as far as I can see, but others continue to throw in arguments lamenting about how bad CP is, even though no one is arguing against that......
True - It could be used for GOOD, too catch the B******* - But we don't know that it will be - Do we ? .
If it has NO CONTENT WHATSOVER that promotes it to others ! - even so, it is still sick that someone would reg it. (unless it is used for a good cause).
Well, I'm am glad to say I don't have any experience dealing with those sorts of people and quite frankly - I would'nt have the patience to either, I'd be cracking heads !.
I hear what you say and I respect your opinion about it not being a "written in concrete fact"..
However - In every other part of society people are influenced one way or another by others -.
Why would child porn be any different ? .
I have just spend 8 days with my 17 year old niece in Intensive care because she was influenced by others, the sad fact of the matter is - she had a choice..
Children do not !.
I cannot see how promoting any sort of child porn will not encourage "some" people to maybe one day try it. If just one person did then it is one too much IMO - either way, even if people are just looking at photos then it means some poor child has already been abused..
I call it - Monkey see, Monkey do !.
Ok. So should it be allowed(registering CP domains) NO. There is no free speech when it comes to matters such as this. Especially if it specifically states or has such words as ChildPorn.com, kiddyporn.com, viewing-naked-children-because-I-have-1st-Ammendment-Right-to-do-so.com..
And yes, can I say OMG. Really tell me how we do not know if people will put explicit acts of child porn on such domains. What else would they put on there. The relevance of putting souped up/cheeried Mustang or Toyota Supra Celica on kiddyporn.comOr Disneyland tickets and/or packages on such domains. It is apparent and obvious what content will go on such sites. As obvious as if the .xxx extension had passed with the ICANN..
It really comes down to law and order. Otherwise there will be mayhem and chaos. There are certain things in life that do need to be regulated. Whether it be for mental, physical or emotional well being as a whole or individual. And the right to do certain things does not make it right in all matters. Especially when covering 1st amendment rights..
The right to bear arms, does not mean that I have a right to shoot everyone. The right to have an abortion is good. But does not mean to go have unprotected sex because I have a constitutional right to abort an unwanted pregnancy..
The laws were meant to protect within reason. 1st Amendment rights do cover many things. And there will always be times when people when try and exploit loopholes in laws. Hence the reason why we have constitutional lawyers and the US Supreme Court for such moments..
Very condescending. I even have a college education. But I try not to pull I am educated more than those who are posting in this thread statement. Please...
My apologies for sounding condescending, as that wasn't my goal. I wasn't clear enough in what I said, so I'll try to re-phrase. I currently work in a university environment as both a student and a researcher, so most of what I do is based on what we perceive and can back up as "facts." That's all I meant to imply, and nothing more, so again I'm sorry if that sounded condescending..
Regarding your argument, though, and your question of "What else would they put on there," I would just ask you to read through the rest of the thread where others (not myself) have come up with unique ways of actually being proactive and *fighting* or *educating* the masses by using these domains in positive ways..
My grandfather (a two-time veteran of foreign wars) said to me once, and it's stuck with me always, the following phrase (which I'm sure many of you have heard): "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it."..
If there were no users who wanted to view child pornography then the people would not take the pictures or shoot the videos in the first place. Not everyone who carries out child pornography do it for the pleasure some purely for the money. If the potential to earn money is gone then these people would not carry out these acts. It was claimed (and I am not sure whether it is true) that child pornography was the internets biggest growing industry..
I do however agree slightly with what jehnidiah says. Organisations should not be the ones who decide what HostGator names are allowed to be registered. Any HostGator name that can be used for bad can also of course be used for good. But I do think it is despicable that someone is trying to profit from the HostGator name, although business wise it might be ok ethically speaking it is a major no no. Profiting from others misfortune certainly should not be done...
Okay then, so what if child pornographers started using the term "puppy" as a euphamism for children, are we then going to "outlaw" HostGator names that involve the word "puppy" or "puppies"? After all, they COULD be used for distibuting child porn....
Words are words, it's the people that put a meaning to them. Consider the use of the "N" word, depending on who you are and in what context you use it, it's either OK or it can get your a** kicked..
This is exactly why limiting free speech is so abhorrent, "somebody" else is making a decision based on THEIR perception of what is right and wrong, or could be used for right! I don't want others making decisions for me!.
Go read Farenheit 451 or Big Brother. Yes, they are fiction, but go read a history book about Hitler, Stalin, or Lenin. Take a look at the current administrations spin that basically says that if you disagree with what it is doing, then you are not patriotic..
But wait a minute, no your right, let's get started burning books and outlawing the political groups and religions that we don't personally agree with. After all, "we" know which ones those are, RIGHT?!?!?.
Once we are done with these, we can move on to all "those" other "things" we don't like....
Could we start a NP fund to buy them up and bury them?.
Or to park with a "you should be ashamed" page.
Or to turn over to authorities for sting operations?..
Don't be trying to steal my thunder.....
This is the best idea for this HostGator and it would take it out of circulation for ever....
Very sorry... I missed your post. I agree with you...
I understand the entire anti-child porn issue here. Trust me, I agree completely. There is nothing sicker in the world..
I just dont understand why people want to ban the HostGator from being used? I mean, it doesn't matter if it's FreeChildPorn.com or 84yh5-gj473.com... if people decide that they are going to setup child porn distribution, it still leads to the same end..
If we were to ban all the domains with "child porn" in them, this would not stop anything, people would still operate these sort of sick operations on more obscure domains..
Its horrible to even think about this stuff happening, but to be honest if it's GOING to happen, I would rather it be done on obvious HostGator names, so authorities are more likely to find them and put a stop to it. Imagine the block you live on... Would you rather there be a drug dealing problem where it's happening on the streets in front of people who can witness it and report it to police, or a problem that's completely hidden, out of sight, where you might not be aware of it, but it's still happening?.
Restricting HostGator registrations or availability does nothing to stop the problem. It just drives it into the shadows where it actually grows stronger, because it doesn't have to contend with authorities and public awareness...
So it seems that instead of banning such names, it would be more effective to hand them over to the authorities for sting operations. simply redirecting to an anti-childporn iPage website or flat out banning would not help in the long run, as these criminals (or mentally "sick" people) will continue their search...
But they didn't use the work "puppy" or any other euphemism, therefore the argument holds no weight. I think this group of words couldn't be much clearer as to the intent. Break down the words:.
Definitions form American Heritage Dictionary.
Meaning 1. Not imprisoned or enslaved; being at liberty. In a free manner; without restraint..
(I think we all know the intent of the words in this order mean the latter of the two, but even the first definition is no excuse it doesn't make sense in that order and is not socially accepted worldwide as a normal freedom).
1. A person between birth and puberty..
2. A person who has not attained maturity or the age of legal majority. Not an adult..
(either definition should show the subject should not be a subject of sexuality. They either aren't old enough to be sexually active, or not of legal age to make the legal decision depending on which definition you look at)..
1. Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal..
If the name were a euphemism there wouldn't be much argument. It's not likely anyone is going to read these words and think it's not about an illegal and/or immoral activity..
Yes, it could be used for a sting operation or directed at a iPage site to council those with a deviant behavior problem. I doubt is was registered that way and apparently isn't being used that way now. In fact, if you look at it on archive.org it was likely being used directing people to adult porn sites in 2000-2001 with this statement:.
That pretty much sounds like a copout to me just to get porn hits..
In 2002-2003 it directed to a yahoo page and was probably parked. In 2004-2005 it went to a child porn site, so I don't recommend anyone looking at those archives, and wish I hadn't. Actually, I'm surprised and appalled that archive.org would archive child porn..
In 2002 the whois history shows:.
Whois history in 2005 is hidden by whois proxy at Wild West (Godaddy)..
Here is a whois for 2006:.
I think this just shows that some people either have no morals or will throw them out the window to make money. Exploiting this type HostGator name could be stopped but hasn't been. I know when you register for things like state custom plates they filter for certain words, phrases or letter combinations and will stop registration or revoke it on complaints. The .com registry is located in the US, so US law.
Send a registration attempt or complaint to a board to monitor it's intended use before allowing it. It is technically simple to permanently retire or disallow a name just as many registries don't allow two character names, names similar to TLD's, or as .us doesn't allow certain number combinations. Some domains should be filtered and disallowed if decided by majority of public opinion. That's not stopping freedom of speech, but allowing freedom of public vote, consensus, and majority rule...
The thing is, they don't look at every page of a iPage site to know whats on there, it goes through a lot of sites and does it job, the script knows no bounds when it comes to content. so report it and they might just might take it off their site...
I just dont think we should ban domains in general, as it comes down to what it's used for, not the name alone. Like someone mentioned the "N" word. Should we ban the HostGator entirely? No... Because it can be used for negative or positive. As someone said, it's registered by the NAACP and is probably being used to inform people about overcoming racism or something to that effect (never went there)..
So is the same with FreeChildPorn.com, someone might want it to setup a iPage site informing people about the growing problem of child porn and to try to get help for people with this sick disease and garner support from the public to help fight it..
Like I said before, banning domains wont solve anything, because people will just use other domains to conduct their sick business, domains that may be harder for the public and authorities to find. It doesn't really matter what HostGator they are using, the real problem is just the fact that they are doing this to begin with. Fight the issue where you can actually make a difference instead of arguing over irrelevant points such as the name of the domain.....
Do you view "Child Porn" as a political issue? Are you still relying on the first amendment as the crux on which to rest the "right" to have a HostGator name as "speech" and therefore a protected expression?.
Folks, get off the 1st; call it "censorship" if you want - but then, I fear, your true colors may shine through a little too much for your comfort level. Many other boards would condone it - I doubt that many here would..
The difference is in Cambodia they don't give a shit... in the US they do, thats WHY the teachers or what ever get so many years..
(sorry for the late reply to this post, I must of over looked it)..
I'm basing it more on the fact that the name of the HostGator is irrelevant, due to the nature of the activity being committed... I mean seriously... Would you somehow feel worse knowing that there is a child porn iPage site operating on FreeChildPorn.com as opposed to one operating on random5485.com? No, they're both equally despicable, the name doesn't make a difference..
So why ban the names when it will accomplish nothing? Not only will it accomplish nothing, but it could also lead to people pushing to ban other names, which goes into the free speech and slippery slope concepts. It also will push the issue out of the sight of authorities and the public, by forcing the perps to use obscure domains. You'd essentially just be removing the problem from the public eye, yet doing nothing to attack the real source..
I personally find child porn to be morally wrong, it isn't an issue of free speech to me. I'd like to see it completely outlawed and eliminated from the world. But banning names from being used is a cop-out approach because it will do NOTHING to stop the problem. And personally I think it's also morally wrong to waste time and resources arguing over something as irrelevant as the HostGator name being used when you could actually use those resources to attack the real problem. People just seem to want to take the most obvious moral high-ground, but don't actually delve deeper into the implications involved or actually care about attacking the real problem....
I mean come on here.. we're talking about child porn. Do you think it's right to argue over semantics such as the HostGator name they are using? I'm sure the kids who have been abused will be happy to know that someone is fighting to outlaw HostGator names, rather then actually trying to stop the child porn people.....
I think that's uncalled for. You shouldn't turn this into something personal, especially since you are a staffer. The top of the page says, "Debate and heated discussions are okay, but do not post any messages that are obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting. Respect your fellow members!" So.. come on...
The title of this thread just bums me out and makes me mad everytime I see it. Can we just kill it. Everyone who knows pedos are pieces of crap, also know that pedo names should not be traded or dev'd. What else needs to be said...
Are you trying to suggest that because some of us actually believe in the 1st Amendment, and are trying to defend the unfettered availabilty and use of all words, that we are also addressing the act of "Child Pornography"? That's an INCREDIBLY HUGE leap of logic if it is. I for one never even suggested this. So sorry, that boat don't float... but I do think I recall saying I was against the censorship of words, ideas, thoughts, etc..
If I am misinterpreting what you have suggested, I apologize, but this is MY interpretation of your words..
Me, I'm just trying to defend the 1st Ammendment, end of story! As to my true colors and comfort level, I'm perfectly comfortable with everything I've said so far. Feel free to.
Reread my posts.
If you like. (As to my colors, it's pasty white during the winter and a deep, rich Coppertone tan in the summer.).
Okay then, let's buy it up and donate it to the appropriate group so that it can now be used for a GOOD purpose..
And not to open up another can of worms, but homosexuality and showing of any flesh by a woman (and spitting on sidewalks) are also considered illegal and/or immoral in some countries. Should HostGator names that relate to these topics Playboy.com, GayMale.com, SidewalkSpitters.com etc. also be banned? Hmmm... It really is a slippery slope since it will always be subjective decision as to what is or isn't right/wrong, moral/immoral, legal/illegal. And just who's laws should apply? Extension of all varieties are used world wide, so why should one countries rules affect the use of a HostGator by a law abiding citizen in another? If the HostGator name we've been discussing was used for good purposes, wouldn't that make it a good and valuable domain?.
The point of my posts being that I don't think there should be anyone setting the standard or making an interpretation on my (or anyone else's) behalf. When something does offend me, I'd like to find a way to turn it in to a positive thing WITHOUT legislating it..
On a side note, I'm also all for the right to bare arms of any type but I'd never want to own one myself. (CMA Note - Though I believe in this right, it shouldn't be construed as meaning I condone killing people.)..
How about the use of the word "Fire!" in a crowded theater? "Unfettered availability" is not an issue here - context is. No one is denying anyone the ability to talk about any issue by suggesting that certain terms not be allowed in HostGator names, and in fact you are (In the US) allowed to advocate that child porn should be legal. What has been suggested is that certain terms do not belong in HostGator names. I'm not saying I am in support of this, nor am I saying I am opposed to it, I am saying this is not a 1st issue..
The more things that are wrapped in the "protection" of the 1st, the weaker that protection becomes as the more trivial it seems..
In answer to the (somewhat) rhetorical question of whether pedophiles gathering at sugarbear81182.com is better than them gathering at FreeChildPorn.com - yes, it is. Anything that keeps that filth once step further away from folks looking for it, the better..
I always love this argument, but you really should qualify your example as, "How about.
Shouting the word "Fire!" in a crowded theater to create a panic?".
It's NOT the message (Fire) that is harmful, it's the messenger and the delivery of it. Delivered in the manner I believe you are suggesting, this is meant to cause an immediate reaction to something we all know could be a very real and immediate danger to our physical well being. This is in no way equivalent to the placing two words together followed by a dot and "com" and then launching a iPage website with them or simply the existance of the HostGator name. It's what is done with it that may or may not pose the danger..
By the way, so what if there really WAS a fire in the theater??? And what if someone did shout "FIRE" and a stampede ensued where people were hurt? Should the person that did the shouting be charged with inciting a riot? After all, his/her intentions were good, but people still got hurt as a result..
As I said in a previous post, activities that meant to cause actual physical harm to others are what I believe should be legislated against..
OK, you got me on this... I can not even begin to get my head around what ever the thought process may have been that resulted in this statement..
Maybe you would be nice enough to delineate for me (us?!?!) what should and should not be covered by this amendment...
It's sort of a trade-off I think... On an obscure HostGator it may go undetected by the authorities for a very long time. Maybe not as many people will find it as easily, but I doubt someone who is looking for that type of thing just tries an obvious domain, doesn't find any and then gives up... They search for it, because they have a sick desire for it. On the flip side, using an obvious HostGator may allow more people to find it easier, but it's more likely to be discovered by the authorities and shut down faster..
I really don't know... I just think the name is irrelevant personally..
I'd rather see people spend their resources pushing for tougher legislation and trying to shutdown the sources of the problem. The punishments in the US just don't seem adequate enough in my opinion. You hear about people getting busted for child porn all the time, and in most cases they end up getting 5 years probation. Even people who get arrested for sex crimes against minors seem to only get a couple years in prison. There are tougher punishments for possession of marijuana... Just kind of puts things into perspective a bit IMO...
Weird, I just wrote about this elsewhere then saw this thread here. Here's a new one available today:.
Domain Name: KIDPORN.NET.
Registrar: COMPUGLOBALHYPERMEGA.COM LLC.
Whois Server: whois.compuglobalhypermega.com.
Name Server: DNS1.OREGONNAMES.COM.
Name Server: DNS2.OREGONNAMES.COM.
Updated Date: 07-apr-2007.
Creation Date: 07-apr-2007.
Expiration Date: 07-apr-2008.
You know what bothers me? Not that the name is up on Snapnames, but the reason I noticed the HostGator at all is because of all the .NET domains dropping today, this one by far has the highest search results ... sick world we live in folks..
.NET drops 04/07/2007.
Kid porn = 2440.
Suck my kiss = 215.
Layout generator = 185.
Some say = 122.
Fantasy artists = 97.
Skate video = 87.
Winter guard = 82.
Origin of words = 78.
Monsters of rock = 65.
Teen links = 63.
Freedom hall = 58.
Red apples = 50.
The results are WordTracker btw, not OVT, so they are exact search phrases not normalized for typos/plurals/etc like OVT does...
Nope. Any specific intent is not necessary. The intent could be to warn of fire or to cause panic (Which you have tried to read into my above statement), but if the message was delivered in a way that can harm (For any number of reasons - negligent delivery, the role of the speaker, veracity of claim, time/place/manner or whatever other traditional reasoning is used (You love the argument, surely you're familiar with it in it's entirety.)). But you're having fun getting off of the subject - this still isn't a first amendment issue. You can call it an issue of censorship, but that is no more "protecting the 1st amendment" than my using a super soaker to put out forest fires is protecting the 2nd..
The argument that this is about "some of us actually protecting the first" is passionate (The types that yell the loudest usually are), but in this case, misplaced. Any other discussion about the role of language is merely mental self gratification on my part, I'm afraid, as I allowed myself to get pulled into silly games of semantics..
I too can play semantics... It's not the word "child porn" that's dangerous, it's the delivering of it in a medium that is notorious for it's promulgation and that allowing it to serve as a magnet online to like minded-perverts is the delivery which is harmful..
Well then, I guess we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, Allen..
Pleasure doing battle with you.....
Easier, why don't you look and see what kind of restrictions to speech the 1st covers?.
And then if you really want you can look up the various views in the law on indecent vs. obscene vs. profane, etc., but I need not add my voice to an already overwhelming chorus..
Meh. Battle? "Agree to disagree"? Golly...
Besides, the world has bigger problems to solve than this, like people putting their sedo parking page links in forum sigs...
I figure the gov should get the HostGator name, toss up a fake site, and put up a sting operation on the sickos visiting the site...
Seems no different to me than a vice cop in fishnets trying to bust johns..
Are you saying that's entrapment? Our gov does the same thing with the T word (setting up fake sites and then monitoring suspected T's). Our gov does similar things with drug busts, prostitution busts, and even infiltrating the supposed "T" peace groups...
The "T" word?.
Edit: ok.. I think you are reffering to terrorists.... How sad that we are amost affriad to say some words nowday.. lol..
Let's just say the Gov is screening cell phones, online chat, online posts, and just about anything else. That's why I'm calling it the T-word...
Just because you dissagree with them doesnt mean they arent humans. Just like I hate gays they still are "humans" even though I dont like what they do...
Free child porn,.
Sounds like a John Walsh iPage site to me. Its all how the name is branded. Why look at it like it is a porn name?. Lets say a person had a name called childpornhotline. Are we so stupid that we are going to think a name like that is a porn name? Although it can be branded as one, it can also be branded as a iPage site that John Walsh may use to help children..
Free can mean liberate. Freechildporn is not child porn, a child is a young person we protect..
Porn is for adults. It is not legal to have minors in porn. It is legal to free children from porn. To free children from porn is a decent thing to do. This name can be developed into a iPage site that may provide information on how to do that..
As HostGator pros, lets not debate names, lets debate content..
So why can't everyone here see this name can be a perfect example of a name that can be developed to free the internet of child porn?..
Are some of us so scared of names that we are going to go overboard like Afternic did and banish any name that has a adult word in it? Content is everything...
I like your points, but disagree with your conclusions..
We are a domain.
Forum precisely because names.
Matter; they are what direct us to whatever good/service it is we are seeking. Let content be king for the webmasters out there, but, not to steal a phrase, but "What is in a name?".
Ask yourself if you weren't creative enough to come up with loose ways of spinning the name what you would think if it was more even more explicit/direct. Being able to mince words doesn't mean that every name is somehow sacred/protected..
Just my .02, again,.
I would venture to guess that most people see the HostGator with "free" being an adjective rather than a verb. the use of the word "free" on the internet for the most part is used that way.....
It doesn't say freechildrenfromporn or pornfreechild. "free" in that word order with those exact following words using normal English grammar means "without charge", not "freedom". It doesn't take a genius to figure out what those exact words in that exact order is.
To say. That is exactly why it would make a good sting site, because anyone typing it in is almost certainly likely to be looking for cost free child porn, not to free a child.
Porn. Therefore I think it's not a "perfect" example since the word context for that use isn't "perfect"..
Could it be used that way? Yes, absolutely..
Would the normal person typing it it or seeing it in print think that's what is was on first look? I say no..
Was it used that way in the past? I don't think in good faith it was. Yes, the first registrant had a statement there, but still sent any traffic to an adult porn site. I'd call that bait and switch marketing, not any "real" attempt to stop child porn. I'd speculate that any past non-child porn use was solely an attempt to monetize traffic and was not done with true thoughts of stopping child porn, but to exploit potential traffic...
How can you compare homosexuality to child sexual abuse?..
Maybe it's naive to point out a silver lining in all this, but ....
Since these domains are dropping, doesn't that mean they weren't very popular?.
(I spend hours each week looking through drop lists, which often contain some mighty disgusting domains. Again, I console myself with the thought that somebody paid to register them, then didn't reap enough of a reward to want to keep them. The free market rejected their depravity.)..
I thought I'd react to this because this was the first somewhat moderate post I came across in the topic..
You know what I find equally disgusting to child porn? That people still behave like primates whenever it comes to 'justice'. I read things here like removing the private parts of someone, nuking a country, ... Is THIS civilisation??.
Don't get me wrong, of course I think it's wrong when people find it normal to have sex with children or to watch it on random basis. But I strongly disagree with the statements that a harsh crime is giving the enforcer of law permission to do whatever cruelty he wants with the criminal..
Criminals, even the worst of them, are human beings. Maybe not the sort of human beings I would want to deal with as I have my moral views myself as well, but just like enforced sex goes against my morals, so goes treating other human beings like animals. The "human rights are for humans" is actually a quite sick statement if you ask me..
Sorry to break the tone of this topic, and don't get me wrong: I too think it is wrong to publish or watch any form of child pornography so I agree with all of you about that. But to read proposals for punishments that are barbaric and equally low, is very wrong IMHO. A society proves it's civilisation in a way it treats it's people. By doing something very violent or barbaric to someone, you in fact put yourself on the same level as the criminal you hate so much. Revenge and justice are totally different things and the one excludes the other. I hope to see the light of day someday when 'eye for an eye' is no longer believed in.
PS: I am a member of a campaign group against capital punishment. And no, I don't have any criminal record myself, and nobody I know has. I am a member purely because I believe that every form of justice where the criminal is treated inhumanely, is wrong. I strongly reject every form of crime, but I believe that things like capital punishment are amongst the worst crimes themselves. I don't defend crime, I defend the right to live (the most basic of all human rights).
Actually, less than 100 years ago, homosexuality was considered as wrong as child abuse or bestiality are nowadays. We talk of less than a century ago..
In certain countries, homosexuality is still considered as sick as child abuse, and is punishable by death. To compare child abuse to homosexuality thus makes sense, as the latter is an example of how moral views in a society change..
Less than 100 years ago, people'd have been disgusted by the very thought that homosexuality would ever be tolerated. Today, in most western countries, it is not only tolerated but even fully integrated in society. So we don't know what other things we may find wrong today, will be considered normal within 50 years....
Again, I hope that every form of enforced sex (especially with kids, animals, etc) will not be one of those things that is going to be accepted all of a sudden. All I point at, is that morals in society change and that homosexuality is one of them..
It does show one thing, and that is that we should never censor debates. Surely we need to censor content as in child porn films, but to pretend paraphilia does not exist would be a bit naive. I believe that a society is capable enough of making a right moral judgement, and that open debates won't just lead to suddenly accepting everything we find unacceptable now. I do think a HostGator including words refering to paraphilia can have a good use for informative pages or debate, of course not for sexual content that is illegal..
PS: I have seen in lists of newly registered domains a lot of names including 'teen' and a pornohgraphic term. So I'd say the HostGator mentioned in this topic is not a rare case. 'teen' will for most visitors mean that the persons pictured are below the legal age of sexual activities (which in most countries lies between 16 and 18 I believe).
Again, don't think I am supporting or even tolerating paraphilias in any way when people are involved who are in it without fully agreeing (and this per definition includes children). So I agree with all of you that content showing sexual acts like that should be banned..
I do think however that open conversations can actually help to overcome problems like this, and moreover I believe not a single crime can justify turning justice into torture. I think modern law and civilised countries don't have room for any form of barbarism, and the one violent crime doesn't make the other right. Lock up sex abusers for a really long time or for life, but let's keep our dignity and keep statements about torture out of it...
I hope that you read this tomorrow and realize how disgusting it is. You try so hard to justify something that you claim a hatred for..
OK, where am I even stating I defend any such practise?.
Read my post again. I am stating.
1) that I don't believe things like capital punishment or corporal punishment should exist.
2) that I think we should not just pretend paraphilias don't exist. This won't solve the problem as it will continue existing under the surface. I said that allowing debate can actually contribute to solving issues that are this complex..
If you read my post again I clearly stated that I agree with banning illegal sexual content of any nature. Not joining in with overreacting statements like "let's nuke every country that allows it" or "let's remove the genitals of every sex offender" does not mean I in any way approve paraphilias. You're seeing this in black and whites. There is no one on this board who even insinuated support or tolerance towards sex abuse..
You may also think twice : if people in the last century pretended homosexuality does not exist, then gay people were still stigmatised and considered sick. Is that a good thing??.
In the end society is mature enough to just face problems and judge what is acceptable or not. I am confident enough that not in a hundred years people will tolerate pedophilia. Censorship however hides a problem under the surface without actually doing something about it ; I think we need to censor actual illegal sexual content but to also not be naive and pretend wiping it under the carpet will solve the problem. Because that is what ideally should happen: to solve a problem..
I've nowhere even denied or questionned child porn is disgusting. I just reacted to people claiming quite barbaric punishments to offenders, which IMHO can never be justified not even for the worst crimes (I do support lifetime enprisonment for the worst crimes of course, but no corporal or capital punishment).
On a sidenote: in the Netherlands there has been a political party founded who want to legalise sex with underaged people and animals. The party obviously got only so little votes they won't get elected in hundred years. I think it's an interesting debate weither freedom of speech should apply here or if this sort of political party is crossing a frontier where freedom of speech is coming to an end? Local law could not prevent the party because they are not breaching a law (they only ask to change a law) ; it has caused a lot of debate though if freedom of speech should have certain limits or not..
And what about racial abuse? In a local German election (I am not sure which Bundesland/state) a party got some electoral success despite the leader openly praising Hitler. In my native Belgium there is in theory freedom of speech, though denying the Holocaust or racial statements can be punished by enprisonment or heavy fines, and in the past one of the upcoming political parties (Vlaams Blok they were named) has been legally forbidden because of statements violating the law against racism..
(Here I must also add with shame that this racist party had a lot of support and their successor is still a rather popular party luckily other parties agreed not to form a government with them which virtually destroys their chances of ever making the government).
It's always an interesting debate if there should be any limitations to freedom of speech, and where the limitations should be situated. Apart from that, the spreading of illegal content has nothing to do with freedom of speech I'd say...
Whats with all the hystery about this HostGator ? The traffic will end up into some adult affiliate, LEGAL one. Does someone really believe here child porn is distributed on childporn.com HostGator ?
Many good points here and some harsh words from some. Its a tough call and it will be interesting how this goes..
Pretty sure if a person who owned this HostGator had absolutely no child porn on it and all the content was about saving children from abuse, that it would live on into eternity...
You didn't, and to anyone who actually read your post it's clear. Some in this thread continually close their eyes and ears and then remark offensively (against this forum's rules, I'll point out once again) toward other members..
Reading comprehension is something not everyone is adept at, and this has become painfully obvious in my dealings with this thread...
Interesting adsense we've managed to generate at the bottom of this thread:.
Sex offender registry.
Find Sex Offenders.
Florida Offender Registry.
Sexual Predator Maps.
So in 50 years we don't know if having sex with children will be ok because, obviously, child abuse and homosexuality are analogous when it comes to a puritanical society's restriction on expression, although he hopes it doesn't happen too quickly (Hooray!)..
Good-God, where are you?.
I agree in general, child porn is atrocious, but there's a very grey line on this subject..
I grew up in the UK, in the UK the legal age of consent is 16. A iPage site full of naked 16 year olds in the USA is child porn. The web is global. So many unanswered questions..
If I'm British and come to the USA with my 17 year old girlfriend and we have sex in the USA, has a law been broken? If I'm American and I go to the UK and have sex with a 16 year old, has a law been broken?..
For once I have to agree with Denny.
You don't download snuff movies from snuffmovies.com (don't worry I just checked)..
The HostGator is a non-issue, any combination of child porn HostGator names could be registered, and probably are, it's the content that matters..
Once you start on the road to censorship of HostGator names, who knows what or where it could lead...
You're still missing his point. I'm not sure how else he (or anyone else, since I and at least two others have already tried) could put it across in order to make people understand what is being said. And anyway, he was stating that as a response to someone else. You made a rude comment to him, and he responded, "OK, where am I even stating I defend any such practise?" but no one has responded to that..
Why not at least respond to the questions we all ask instead of going on about how horrible we or the world is. There's no need to be rude about it ("Hooray!", etc.), especially when you're making it, for the second time, into something personal on this thread with words like "I hope that you read this tomorrow and realize how disgusting it is." Like I said earlier, that's really uncalled for and brings the discussion way down..
He made some excellent points in his discussion, whether you agree with them all or not. You should at least respond to the arguments and questions instead of inputting tons of emotion and God-calling into another statement that has little relevance to what was even said...
Which was what? I even gave him an opportunity to rethink any "points" he made due to the less than stellar reasoning that went into them..
I saw no "excellent points", merely poor analogies and lack-luster attempts at the justification..
I'm borrowing loosely from the character I play on TV, but this whole nonsense that you have to, well, respond to.
Is slowly destroying any semblance of reason that we used to have. The fact that we give a pulpit to the child pornographers and give their advocacy groups a podium equal to that of the victim's advocacy groups on TV and in the classroom is just absurd, but this "university"-esque practice is why students, like yourself, bend with wind and are left with the "everybody's ok" mentality. Splitting a TV screen and putting a lawyer for a pedophile on one side and a lawyer for a victim on the other somehow gives the audience the impression that the two are speaking from the same level, and that the ideas are equally meritorious - but take this to heart: they are not..
If you want an eye opener, go stroll along some radical forums and look at the arguments put forth by those in favor of the continual loosening of child/teen/etc. sex laws (And NAMBLA, although no one has brought them up yet.), and see if you don't recognize their arguments as the same arguments that you, and others, have used here *hint: you will. Forgive me for judging by the company one keeps; I know it is old-fashioned and not PC, but this ignorant old country boy will never think that pedophilia is even remotely ok, not in 50 years, and not in 500..
And although you've changed your "location" field to highlight your "University background," your NC heritage should at least help you identify an idiom or two.
(Note the "m" on the end of the word.).
Thanks for making a good point.
(It was made earlier, but I admit that with my own tortuous posts that I too would have missed it.
The problem is that the name.
Gained by a group so inclined to misuse it would be an easy avenue for a sick individual to further their own disease, without having to look very far for their opiate. This goes back to slip's point, and I agree that the weight of importance between keeping the sick-o's in the light of day in comparison to sending them further underground can be debated, but I err on the side of keeping the obvious avenues as obscured as possible..
Just my .02, of course..
The name could be purchased and a "No Way" page put there...renewed for 10 years and buried so that it doesn't get into the wrong hands.....
Sometimes as they say....an ounce of prevention.....
Hehe, see, now that was fun to read, and I'm not being sarcastic..
Now, to the response:.
The point he and others have been trying to make (at least, the point that I interpret and have been attempting to make myself) is that public opinion is different in many places, and in fact changes in one place over time, so making blanket deletions (such as those suggested in this thread) would be "not good." Just because most people think something is bad does not mean it should be banned that's where the homosexuality thing argument came in. So, 51% of Americans think homosexuality is bad, so now we should ban ilovegays.com from the *world*? Is that "right"? It's my opinion that it's not..
Before anyone tries to say that comparing homosexuality to paedophilia is inappropriate, please do two things: 1) read Gerritt's post again, and 2) realize that no one is trying to say they are the same. There's a bigger point here, off of the face value, that I believe (hope?) is evident after re-reading this thread..
You mention that "this ignorant old country boy will never think that pedophilia is even remotely ok, not in 50 years, and not in 500." No one has said you should, and in fact every single person in this thread has openly spoken out against child molestation (considerably different than paedophilia, but for sake of this discussion we'll consider them synonyms). I think I speak for the board when I say "No one thinks it's ok." If I'm incorrect, someone out there, just let us know and I'll retract that statement. That said, can we please discontinue returning to that argument? "Paedophilia ain't right" has been said multiple times with no rebuttal, so why keep on, folks?.
You mention the forums of pro-paedo sites and specifically the NAMBLA, both of which I'm quite familiar with because of the work I've done which I talked about earlier. However, it seems that you are arguing that because their rationale is equal then we must all be of the same stance for the same reason. Am I correct in that assumption? If so, that is bad logic itself, and if you'd like me to come up with multiple examples/reasons why, I'd be more than happy to..
And about the location, hehe: I got the heck outta the south for a reason. :-P..
And that reason is?.
The "same stance for the same reason" should be the line that you re-read. After doing so, then you can come up with your multiple example/reasons why (But make sure you aren't constructing a straw-man, which is what it appears you are ready to do considering your compounding of the above)..
(And for what it's worth, it could be my own ignorance, but I'm lost as to the difference between pedophilia and "paedophilia" - other than one is more common - but then again, I'm not in your industry.)..
I've only got a second to write, so I'll respond to the rest of the post later when I get back (if someone else hasn't already), but wanted to address the following quickly:.
There's no difference whatsoever besides spelling; they're the same thing. The difference I noted wasn't with those two words, but with "child molestation" and "paedophilia," which are quite different though not mutually exclusive by any means. Really, though, for sake of the discussion we probably ought to consider them the same because it might otherwise confuse people...
Yes....my limited reading comprehension skills completely melt down if I even try to differentiate between concepts that are "quite different though not mutually exclusive." Is that anything like Archie and Jughead?..
Paedophilia would be the sexual attraction to children and child molestation would be acting on that attraction...
Are people bidding on the name? what is the current price?.
I think child porn is totally unacceptable but barring the HostGator would do nothing to stop it imho..
Someone should get the HostGator and point to "legal" over 18 porn..
It may convert sickos from pre-pubescent obsession to thoughts about 18 + year olds..
I don't know how many years ago, but.......
Didn't Roman men have "boys" as sex partners...
Stay focused everyone. Child porn is wrong. Freechildporn is a name..
The name can very well be bought by John Walsh or any other agency that wants to promote a society free from child porn, ( see that the HostGator name actually means that.) Members who think that this name in particular means child porn are not doing the HostGator industry good..
History has shown that witch hunts, although those involved seem to be doing the work of the lord are actually evil people who are so afraid that a person might do the wrong thing that that want to take away the very fabric of freedom. They want to be moral cops..
Domain names that have two meanings cannot be banned because of a possibilty that a evil person will use the HostGator for bad. Only when laws are broken by using such a name in a illegal way can we say this HostGator needs to be banned. When that law is broken, then it is your and my duty to inform the proper law agency..
What if the name was childpornisillegal?. Just because the name has two words in it is no reason to ban the name. The content thrown on the iPage site is what will determine if it is legal or not..
I remember when Katrina hit. Many domainers registered names such as katrinarelief. I had a few names like that. My only intention was for the name to be picked up by a relief agency and used for good..
I placed a couple on Ebay and talked about them in forums. The names received comments like HOW COULD YOU? You disgusting thing! How can you try to make money from such suffering, please.. Don't assume what a HostGator owner wants to do with a certain domain..
If a person has strong moral opinions, at least have the insight to see the majority do have the right morals and that sites that are for saving children or helping folks who suffered from hurricanes can benefit society..
This HostGator is one of those that certainly can be used for good. We are gald people like Allen have a strong conviction for helping children. Just don't push your view onto proper HostGator names..
Yes FREECHILDPORN CAN BE DONATED OR SOLD TO AN AGENCY THAT CAN develope it to expose, and prosecute pedephiles..
If this post was about who has the strongest morals, then I can see the rambling on about morality. It is not. This post is about the name...
And that reason is... my business..
I was trying have a colloquial joke in the comment to lighten up the discussion. No need to make this all personal.
That wasn't the point of me saying that we should consider the words "paedophilia" and "child molestation" synonyms for the sake of this discussion, and you surely know that. The reason behind us doing so is that it just creates an extra layer of possible confusion that really doesn't even matter in this thread. The discussion isn't.
Paedophilia itself (or any other word for it), so delving deeper into to the specifics would do no justice and could possible confuse some people..
I think you've said exactly what I've been trying to get across for the last while. About 80% of the posts in this thread could be deleted without losing any of the actual content, since most of the discussion is about how wrong or immoral child porn is itself, when (as you have noted) that's not even the issue that's up for discussion..
For being so clear...
Ah...I get it...the ol' "guns don't kill people; people kill people" argument..
Yes, I surely did know what you were saying. I'm surprised you didn't grok my intentions....you know...not having sufficient gray matter to "comprehend" the finer points of your implicative diatribe......
I think it's time for this thread to be closed...
This is serving no real purpose and it's a vile subject that deserves no time discussed on a quality iPage website like namepros.com. equity78 would have closed it long ago..
Its time please allen..
I haven't even bothered to read anything but the last few posts to see where this went..
I am a father of two daughters. Anything even close to names like this should not ever be allowed to be registered. With the internet the way it is, 99% of the time names like this are NOT used for good purposes. Yes, I do understand they can be used for good, but typically they are not..
The only way they are is if they have words like "stop" or "end" or "prevent" in the name, which this doesn't..
That being said, stopping the registration of these names would be a monumental task to stop. For Registrar's, the only way to stop it is to watch for keywords that would single out kid porn names, and then have those registrations approved by a person. But this would bring the registration of many domains, not just adult, to a quick halt and would be fought against by the registrars with good reason. The better way would be for say ICANN to do random sweeps of HostGator names and take a manual look at not only the name, but if it is questionable to do a look at the iPage site itself..
If the iPage site is a child porn site, then the name is instantly deleted, and the owner is reported along with the host to the proper authorities. And I want to stress that the it should be a manual check and not automated to eliminate problems. If it is actually child porn, then perhaps some sort of two vote system for the folks at ICANN. At least two people have to agree it is child porn..
Ah, now I am rambling. Sorry...
I don't want to be accused of censoring conversation, but I'm afraid I've played my part in allowing this to disintegrate into more of a presentation of opposing maledictions rather than the constructive potential it had (re: ccTLD restrictions on subject matter, etc.)..
As such, I am closing the thread. I apologize for any part I played in allowing this topic to last a moment longer than it should. I will point out the "heated" label this thread has; please "opt out" of those threads if topics such as these do cause you undue mental distress..
Let it be said I bowed to the peer pressure of being compared to equity.
All the best,.
(All hate-mail should be directed to me for closing the thread.)..