I would like to know the answer too. Anyone here know what is the answer. I'll do some Googling and get back to you if I find an decent answer. You should email the people at iPage as they probably could give you an answer..
Everyday I get emails from around the world wanting to parnter with me......
And when the right project comes along I will..
15 bucks an hour is the average and the work is of "good" quality..
I say go for it and outsource yer work..
I just hope the next time yer buddy orders flowers, it will be from.
An overseas concern that will cut yer legs off price wise. Serves you right..
What do ya pay yer counterhelp.....as little as possible I bet. And that is probably returned with like like loyalty and quality..
You want quality, you gotta pay for it..
People like you are a reason I require a non refundable deposit up front..
Not going to pay for a learning curve>......is that what you call yer Doctors diagnosis? Do you refuse to pay for that too?.
With your attitude I would only work on a time and materials basis and the pay would have to be up front...
As the owner of a iPage website with a few thousand in expenses every month which I have to finance out of my own back pocket, I've found Elance to be an invaluable source of help. Im a small operation, still running the whole iPage site out of a little box under my desk, yet serving up (and catering to the needs of) about 130,000 user sessions monthly..
It isnt my first choice to go with someone who can barely speak proper english, nor deal with the endless headaches of trying to communicate and facilitate development projects with them ... but it has been because they only charge $10-$20 an hour that I have survived. Without Elance, I would have gone under a long time ago. It is the cheap help that has enabled me to accomplish large projects and continue to grow my site, without much of a budget..
For small business owners who can't program on their own, and have limited budget, the cheap programming rates aren't a preference; they're a necessity. In that sense I agree with the original poster. However, it is ignorant to tell an audience (this forum) full of people whose market value can reach up to $80 per hour for programming services... that they should be willing to work for $15 an hour, or take a hike. This is a completely different world than India..
I found a phenomenal programmer in the phillipines via Elance who was literally drooling at the thought of $15 per hour. I kid you not. Upon further inquiry, I found out why. For a 2 bedroom house, his rent is $300 a month. Different economy..
US bidders on Elance get extremely frustrated by the Indian and Russian programmers who continually outbid them, however, I can't count the number of miserable projects I've had to lead because these dirt cheap programmers couldn't form a sentence correctly, or did not read the specifications correctly. Entire projects have been screwed up. Countless hours have been lost..
Its not by any stretch of the imagination all it's cracked up to be. It may be cheap, but the bruise on my forehead from slamming it against the wall so many times is proof that you get what you pay for..
A really good place to find a programmer for something like this is:.
I used it one time to find a programmer for a small job, and got bids ranging from $40 all the way up to $350. It's up to the programmer to determine how much they'd charge for what you describe. Then you pick the one you're most comfortable with based on price and the programmer's rating & reviews..
Give it a try..
You dont have to be in a differant contry to have high and Low rates, and it is not just in Programming.
Every level of Job across the U.S. will pay differant, in some area a Fast Food Job will pay 7-8/hr to start, and in others it is $5.50 (federal minmum Wage) This is also the case in just about every job market.
I know many Decent PHP Programmers in the US that do Free Lance (part time) that will work for 10-15 per hour,.
As a Small Business owner, if I was given a Quote of $80/hr I would go to Amazon.com and buy a coupld PHP book's and learn myself to save my Money, ohh wiat I did..
But then you have to factor in other areas such as cost of book, postage, hours spent reading book and learning PHP. Hours spent wrestling with code. Lost sales/revenue as your scripts are not made already, lost sales because you are coding when you should be concentrating on getting in more customers etc etc.
A good programmer could have done all that work for you, at less cost *in the long run*..
FWIW, good UK programmers in a niche market can earn upwards of the equivalent of $350 an hour easily...
That may be true, but you have to have the $80-$350 first, I dont so I have no choice..
I think some of those comments are great !.
I normally stay away from politics but this time........
My grandparents are from South India and I know a little bit about some of the things discussed..
Most of the people in these countries are struggling for many things we take for granted..
Electricity & Heating..
If people who outsourced there work paid a little bit more, these people.
Would benefit greatly. If you were going to pay someone local $100,.
Why pay them $10 ? .
Many ex-american & EU Business / IT people have gone abroad to help these people get a better deal and act as project managers..
(These people also help Useful for decoding specifications.).
Why does the world benefit ? .
As the bar is raised, so does knowledge..
Most of what we know has been aquired in the last 200 years !.
So imagine what we could discover if our scientific community increases in size. Just like the OSC team there are people out there who want to help anyone with a need..
There are far too many middlemen who want to put something into their pockets with the least amount of work..
Look at some of the OSC stores, of the ones that do have the powered by oscommerce text, most do not link to this website..
People are trying to keep oscommerce to themselves..
But word will get round.
(Can I buy some shares in your company Harold ?).
That was a joke :-).
I believe that people who use osc think that since the project is free, the customizing of it should be cheap to do as well. They do not like to think that people who program professionaly need to make money, but rather should be paid a minimum wage for the services..
They do not understand that programmers usually have a formal education in programming. That they have studied and worked with the osc project in depth. I am surprised at people who are from the west and think that professional programmers should make a minimum wage for their efforts and skills......
To these people I say good luck finding someone to do the work competently and fast.......
Out sourcing to other countries while it is a good thing, should not be viewed as a cheaper way of getting work done..
In the long run, by using these people, once they are busy enough, their prices will increase as well, simple economics..
Going the cheap route also has other draw-backs as well, I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for........
Just my 2 cents.....
This is completely accurate, and I've had to deal with that quite often. Unfortunately it's all I can afford right now. The only other option for me until I become rich and famous is that nothing gets done at all, and that's not an option. I always promise my programmer that I will increase their hourly rate in direct proportion to the increase of revenue my iPage site brings, in thanks for giving me such a good deal. When I can afford it in the future, I will actually get a kick out of paying someone in India $100 per hour if they're used to, and living off, of $10 per hour...
Hourly cost should not be the whole basis of the decision. I have on several occasions beat bids from other locals, even though my hourly rates are much higher because quite often I am able to complete the project in much less time with more accuracy. Also quite a few of these shops semm to be charging too little even in their own economies and go under. Now you have to go and find a new person, pay them to figure out what has been done and how to fit that into whatever new items you need to have done..
As an example, I had a client which was having some development work being done in India at $20Hr. When the client needed to have the Apache Jakarta server installed with all of the required programs on a couple of FreeBSD servers they quoted him $1000.00 that comes out to 50Hrs!! I quoted him 4Hrs at $125 an Hr. I got the job, hit my mark on the estimated hours and the customer has not had any problems with the install..
This shop also went out of business shortly thereafter leaving the client with a giant mess of unfinished code..
Just something to think about...
I was thinking of making a statement here, then I thougth it is better not to get involved in this discussion and finally decided to post my comment here because:.
I was not a schooled programmer, I didn't knew much about php, I knew somethink of html (i builded a few very simple websites with some free scripts).
And most of all I really didn't had jack to spend .. for even hiring a guy from the lowest-payed country..
I was learning myselve some skills in coding with dreamweaver and it's convenience in building database driven websites/cms ..
What I learned from this experience is, that building an entire Shop with cms as I wanted it was far beyond my leage and at the rate I was going should have costed me 5 years of my life(combined with my other full-time job)..
I praised heaven and hell, for accidentaly stumbling upon the idea of open source software(e107 at first and OScommerce a few days later)..
Since this great discovery of Oscommerce my problems vanished like the wind, I saved 5 years of my life thanks to the Oscommerce team. After that I went on integrating my first contribs with trial and error methods..
Now half a year later I think I have integrated most of the usefull contributions out there( around 300+), as well as written/modified some of my own..
I really got accustomed to the oscommerce phpcode, I can read php(and write a little), but most important of all I understand every little thing that's in my iPage site code, why it's there, what's it's function,etc..
In short; Without the hours and hours of wrestling with this project, trial and errors(mostly my own fault, some due to bad contribs), and very important the residual satisfied feeling after succesfully completing a new modification. I would not have accomplished what I have right now , my own(build from stock osc) very flexible and multi purpose e-commerce system of wich I am really proud of. The only costs up till now have been iPage hosting and a lot of my own time(when I make some profits, addtional costs will a donation to the oscommerce team for helping me start)..
Nothing like digging up a year and a half old post, lol..
Damn, have I really been here that long?..
Yes but have things changed much? Still people looking for cheap programming and people who still outsource to other countries, I do hope more outsourcing continues, in another couple years their wages will be comparable to ours over here.....
In my case I had totally overlooked the date more because of the topic wich is a general and timeless topic..
And because people still read through the posts for learning and getting a better and well-formed opinion about something,.
The only thing I wanted to state here is;.
That anybody who wants something can achieve just that with a little effort..
Nice idea and I hope sometime in a far away future this could be achieved. But for now I wanted to say :.
For all you newbies out there please try and get it done yourself instead of hiring somebody, it really isn't that big a deal..
If you read on most sites where you ask for a project to be completed, yes, the majority of those who respond are from India/Russia. Just for grins, I posted a project, detailed it out with specifications and then gave a start/stop date for the project. And this was dealing with osCommerce (a project I had already completed) and everyone came back with 3 to 6 months and 5000 - 8000 us and said most likely more. so someone for 10 - 15 per hour from india/russia, is tough to believe, as I deal with those countries all the time on other projects dealing with data recovery, etc. unless you are getting the 7 year old kids..
Here is where the price you pay is the quality you get. and if you fail to checkout references well it serves you right..
You are using osCommerce to make money. want to save money? sit in front of the computer after you get home from work, reading the forum and installing contributions night after night. in one month, I guarantee you that you will learn more. then iPage site back and figure out your cost per hour...